I've personally gone over there to ask them about it and was told to F-off. They are not very good neighbors as I'm sure anyone involved PSCA knows. In addition to the garbage, they also create a public health hazard with public urination. I know they are not required to have bathrooms by law (which is total BS and needs to be changed) but when you have several hundred people a day coming to get steaks you NEED a bathroom.

This was taken Saturday Nov. 26th.

this was taken two days later, Monday November 28th. This is why South Philly is a dump. these places routinely see 200-300 customers a day on average. Weekends and major events can see this number spike to the thousands in a day. Yet they do nothing about the massive amount of garbage and urine that comes from THEIR customers. They need ten times the amount of seating the currently have and must have bathrooms installed. There is no reason why 9th & Wharton should look like a 3rd world world city in 2011.

The playground gates get chained open at night which looks to be purposely done so patrons of Geno's and Pat's can use that area as a bathroom. Funny because there are days that I want to take my child to the playground and the gates are chained closed. Someone with political clout is commanding and allowing this to happen.

both operations need to be shut down and or moved to a more tourist friendly area. this spot in philly sees more tourists then most of the actual tourists sites, yet we get nothing for it. It's sad that people come from all over and 9th & Wharton is the image they see. Pathetic.

I live up above Washington Ave, just off the markets and the number one peice of trash we remove from our street is cheesesteak wrappers, six blocks away. I agree 100% about the bathrooms. It's not as if they're a small food truck - they are running a HIGH TURNOVER restaurant. And with their overpriced sandwiches nearing $9 a pop, I think they can afford to provide adequate trashcans and a place for the HUNDREDS of tourists who stream into our neighborhood each day (many of whom have no reason to respect the very place WE live.) I'm tired of business owners in the Italian Markets. I love living here, but they seem to have no concern for keeping the area tidy.

You can't hold a business responsible for what its patrons do with their litter. Do you hold The Inquirer responsible when there is newspaper in the street? How about Coca-Cola? Beer companies?

The only way this "problem" will go away is if we petition the city for the return of public trashcans to South Philly.

Hi Folks,
I'm on the board of the civic association and in my capacity as communications committee chair, I'd like to just take moment to thank all of you for participating in the See-Click-Fix process, which the board of PSCA monitors on a regular basis. (I should know, I'm one of the ones who gets all the emails!)

Just a couple points of information. The first is that civic association raised some number of thousands of dollars a few years ago to purchase and distribute "Big Belly" solar-powered compacting trash cans along Passyunk Avenue. We also worked with the Passyunk Avenue Revitlization Corporation (PARC) to secure almost 40 traditional, wire trash baskets from the Streets Department and had them distributed throughout the neighborhood. The issue with these cans is that people more often use them for disposing household trash during non-trash days than cheesesteak patrons use them for litter. This leads to even more unsightly piles of trash. For its part, PARC has generously agreed to service the trash cans every week day. Some of the cans, however, are used for dumping so frequently that even after a weekend - especially a holiday weekend - they are completely overflowing. We have taken steps to remove the most problematic trash cans after multi-lingual signage requesting that no dumping take place failed to do the trick.

In theory, if everyone would just dispose of their trash on their given trash pick up day, these would be a great asset to the neighborhood and go a long way to reducing street litter. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen in practice.

PSCA will continue to do what it can to combat litter and beautify the neighborhood. We continue to pay for weekly street cleanings of the parts of the neighborhood not already covered by PARC and we're in the process of looking for new Town Watch leaders who can lead the groups on the monthly town watch to spot, photograph and report the most problematic dumping and litter sites.

Until such time as people stop littering (and we'll be waiting for a long time) we encourage everyone here to continue your good work keeping us informed of the issue and to get out there as often as you can with trash bag and gloves and bag what you can. If we had one person do that for every one person who litters or dumps, we'd have the whole neighborhood cleaned (and kept clean) in a week!

Thanks.

Maybe ask for volunteers such as block captains to help maintain those areas? Also I think our new councilman's first main objective is to do more about this issue. Maybe the PSCA can ask him to have a chat with the cheese steak guru's?

I couldn't agree more. Of course they will say they have no control on what patrons do but instead of having signs up about speaking English, they could have signs up about being mindful to throw your trash away in the trashcan.
Most are tourists and don't live here or nearby and I don't think they care that much.

I don't think people not directly connected to the area quite understand. Imagine if large places with high customer traffic like Chickie's & Pete's or Mcfaddon's at the stadium, were placed on a neighborhood block. Now image that these places had no indoor component or restroom. THAT is what Pat's and Geno's is like. In nice weather, especially if there is a game (Eagles, Phillies, Flyers, etc.) the number of people here can and regularly does reach close to a 1000 at a time.

When you are attracting that level of business, it IS their responsibility to do something about it. garbage cans aren't enough. This is a tourist destination people seek it out daily. As such it should be designated so and receive the same benefits places like Old City receive. A task this expensive and monumental should not be left to the residents or the Civic association.

As for the illegal dumping at trash cans. It's mainly the Asians doing this. Not trying to be racist or stereotypical. it's a fact. the second big offenders are those living in apartments with no outdoor trash areas. This should be required by law, that all landlords (especially those renting floors of row-houses) need to have exterior dumpsters. If there is no room, then no permit should be granted for rentals.

I agree that South Philadelphia doesn't get the same respect as other parts of the city.
It is a disgrace that highly visited tourist spots --such as the Italian Market (part of the historical tour, oldest market in the USA) etc doesn't have street cleaners or trash cans the way center city or old city does.
We were told some years ago when we asked for trash cans--that the city would not remove the bags, neighbors would have to empty the trash cans and place the bags for pick up. They would supply the cans. I thought that was unacceptable. The city should have their streets dept or Center City district should extend. Some money should be sent South for the same cleaning services. I would even have my taxes raised so that we had those recycle bins and compactors on our streets. I would be happy with just regular cans but we should have what the rest of the city has!

Raising taxes are an option, but the way the city manages money would be a lost cause. I believe the street cleaners in Center and Old City are funded based on donations to their local Civic associations. And since there are many more businesses in that area, they are able to do more based on funding.

I think the best way to handle this issue is to support your local civic association, either by volunteering or financially. We as a community are the ones who make the differences and not the local government.

The local civic association then can collaborate with the local businesses and the city (streets dept or our councilman) to help enforce this.

Hi Folks,

Checking into this thread once again to give you some information about Passyunk Square Civic Association's efforts related to the trash and debris issue - especially in the area of concern.

First to clear up a few things.

Center City District and Old City District are what are known as Special Service Districts. They have been granted the authority by City Council to tax businesses within their boundaries and use the revenue for the, among other things, the frequent litter pick up that anyone who is in Center City sees on a daily basis. CCD has been around since about 1990 when Center City was not the most desirable place to be. The incentive for the businesses to get things cleaned up was strong since a cleaner, safer Center City meant more people to patronize their establishments. So paying the tax was essentially an investment that has clearly paid off. While the civic associations there likely have a good deal of fund raising success, the work done by CCD and OCD is funded mostly through their power to levy taxes.

Other areas have tried with varying degrees of success to establish Neighborhood Improvement Districts (NIDs) which also have tax levying authority - this time on all property (with the exception of owner-occupied properties). The money remains in the neighborhood and is used to fund cleaning and safety efforts. A recent attempt to get a NID established in the area around the Reading Viaduct was defeated so it's not always the case that people will jump on board to pay more.

The cleaning efforts in Passyunk Square (6th to Broad, Washington to Tasker) are the result of the efforts of the Passyunk Square Civic Association to raise funds by holding events (plant sale, art auction, home tour, etc), sending out an annual appeal and approaching businesses for sponsorship. The largest part of our budget in the last few years has been to contract with a street cleaning service.

The other cleaning that occurs in the neighborhood is done by PARC (Passyunk Avenue Revitalization Corporation). PARC is a non-profit entity that took over for the defunct Citizen's Alliance and has been in the process of cleaning up the books of CA with the goal that all cleaning and neighborhood improvement services be fully funded from the rent that PARC earns on the multiple commercial and residential properties it controls on Passyunk Avenue (and from the apartments over its headquarters at 11th and Wharton).

You can go to our website - Passyunk.org and click on "Fundraising" to see a list of donors from the 2011-2012 campaign. It also includes donations from businesses and to everyone's point, you'll notice some specific businesses that are NOT on that list (not for lack of trying!). We accept donations all year round (not just during the annual campaign). Click on the donate button on our website to make a donation through PayPal to support our cleaning, greening, community building and beautification efforts.

Thanks,
Dan Pohlig
Communications Chair, Passyunk Square Civic Association

Looking at the list of businesses who donated cash or in-kind gifts, it is clear that the two outfits in question are oblivious to their role in the problems people say they are causing. Those who really want to see these two businesses held responsible for litter, public urination etc. ought to organize an awareness campaign so that residents and tourists alike will know what these businesses ARE and ARE NOT doing to improve or worsen quality of life for the area. Leaning on BIDs, NIDs, politicians, 311 et al to apply pressure will only get you so far. There are enough conscientious people out there who if they heard about the problems caused by the steak shops would probably take their $ elsewhere.

Thanks for the feedback, Chris. Now, speaking only on behalf of myself and NOT the Civic Association, I think the issue that the customer base does not live in the neighborhood nor are they aware of the issue. If neighbors began picketing and handing out informational leaflets, much the same that building trades unions do at non-union job sites, it MIGHT make a difference. But simply organizing neighbors to boycott those establishments won't have much effect since - and this is only my very unscientific observation - none of the neighbors actually ever eat there.

Then the informational pamphlets end up all over. It is a catch 22. The business should be responsible and the fact is they don't care. Look how they treat people that don't speak english? you think they care about trash or the area??? they are low lifers that don't care.

That's not a constructive statement, even if it's true, pearlgrl. Pressure must be brought to bear from every corner possible. As I mentioned, I am not a fan of holding businesses responsible for the behavior of their customers. That is a slippery slope. Those who want to affect change have but few options available to them in this scenario, and participation in and promotion of a boycott via flyering is one of them.

And to add to that point, the leaflets are beside the point and not even necessary. I only mentioned them because it's what most organizations do because they don't feel like engaging in actual discussion with passersby. The key would be having a visible presence of several people with sandwich boards, etc.

But if folks were willing to do that, they may as well just set up a stand offering a nickel for each piece of Pat's or Geno's trash. Even if people still tossed them on the ground, someone else would scoop it up just for the cash. Keep track of how much trash gets collected on a typical busy day, how many nickels were handed out and ask P's and G's if it's worth that amount of money per day to be good neighbors?

I think it's interesting to visit this issue in 2014 and still that nothing has changed.