I'll check with our Downtown District officers to see what the history has been here. When they have responded I will update this issue.

In the past week, we neighbors called in numerous noise complaints and have endured repeated nights of loud drumming, music and vocals, and people shouting and honking their horns after service lets out. The church shows the same behavior over and over again. We need enforcement from the City! I have dealt with this for YEARS. I can hear it in my house and cannot even enjoy a beautiful day in my yard because it is so disturbing. Enough is enough.

Also, please look into their parking situation. Cars are parked all over State and Glascock Streets. Do they have the required number of spaces for their occupancy??

From: White, Alphonsa [mailto:Alphonsa.White@ci.raleigh.nc.us]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:37 PM
To: RPD District 24
Cc: Heidi Miller
Subject: Nuisance Party Violations

D24 please assist me with this noise situation. On a weekly basis I get a complaint for loud music and noise from the 700 block of Glascock Street. After running a call for service history I noticed that the complainants are for the residents of 712 Glascock and 725 Glascock. If you receive a call for these addresses please do more than verbally warn them, charge them if applicable. They have been warned several times. Complete a Nuisance Party Violations form and turn it in. These forms are with our paper forms on the shelf in the squad room.

I really need help on this one.

Captain Al White
District 24 Commander
Raleigh Police Department
Office: 919-857-4464

RPD has NOT been enforcing the violations. We neighbors are very familiar with the noise ordinances. It's not even all about the dB reading. Look at 12-5006. "...unreasonably loud, annoying... loud and disturbing..." 12-5007 (a). Honking is prohibited. 13-3017 (a). "...excessive, unnecessary or unusually loud noise which disturbs the repose of the neighborhood...." 12-5009. You have documentation here that more than one unrelated person is complaining, and I can document that multiple neighbors have complained in writing about this over the years.

We often get dismissed calls or officers that tell us there is nothing to be done. At best, we get that they spoke to the church and told them to turn it down. It has not worked. Cite them, if need be, but end this nuisance to our neighborhood!

The Glorious Church is anything but glorious for those that are around it. They frequently exceed the noise ordinance, and often stand in the middle of N. State St. screaming and yelling at each other well after 10 p.m. on weeknights. It's woken up my daughter in the past. This is not only unacceptable, it's completely disrespectful to the neighborhood (especially when neighbors have tried very nicely to speak to the church about it, with no response). I'm begging any officer that responds to a noise complaint to please cite them. We've tried being nice about it in the past, and it's gotten us nowhere.

I recall one year on New Year's Eve, the pastor knocked on my door and said that the church would be going "a little late" that night. There were people, and a lot of youths, at the church making their usual, exceedingly loud noise until 2am. Then, they let out and were outside in the parking lot yelling and being disruptive until 3am. 3am! Do you know how hard it is to get an officer to respond to a noise complaint on New Year's Eve? This is what kind of neighbor they have been to us.

I don't know how these corrupt little churches pop up and operate but they should be held accountable for their actions. Maybe a civil suit will teach them.

Has there been any progress on this issue?

Snare drums easily audible inside my house right now.

I live in the 600 block of glascock, and am a CERTIFIED AUDIO ENGINEER for a living. I own a very elaberate SPL meter (far advanced than the police have) and have ecountered volume levels from the "church" that EXCEED some establishments in the 400 block of glenwood ave.these readings have exceeded 80dba OUTSIDE the building, after 11pm.(city law states 74 before 11, 55dba after) the city says "weve looked into it.." I find that hard to beleve since i was just woken up by horns honking from their ford transport vans, unneedlessly. by the way is this church operating WITHOUT an amplifier entertainment permit?

My girlfriend and I are currently sick as dogs and trying to rest, but we cannot because we hear a snare drum and amplified voices in our bedroom. This topic was opened a month ago, and the City and RPD has still done absolutely nothing to solve it, which is unacceptable. You have direction from a police captain that was never adhered to. You have neighbors who have been adversely affected for years. We demand action on this noise problem and inquiry into the parking situation. There are no marked spaces in the parking lot, they probably do not have the required number for capacity, and cars are parked up and down neighborhood streets as a result.

Officer Kryskowiak (the Community Policing Officer for the Southeast Police District) has done substantial follow-up since this issue was raised on See Click Fix. He met with neighbors, with the Pastor of the church in question, and did a door-to-door survey in surrounding neighborhoods to determine the extent of the issue. The overwhelming response in the neighborhood survey was that noise from the church was not a problem relative to other problems in the area, and that the church had been responsive when a problem was brought to their attention directly. When officers have recently attempted to do a measured sound check it did not register a violation. This does not mean there never was a noise ordinance violation, but it is difficult to measure at a time and for a long enough duration to document a violation. When officers have responded the noise levels have been within regulations. Unless there is a documented violation it is difficult to take any kind of further action to cite the church for a criminal violation under the "excessive noise" portion of the ordinance, particularly given the differing opinions in the neighborhood about the church's activities.

That being said, this does not appear to be a criminal issue that the Police feel they can stand behind an enforcement action on. It may be an issue that is better negotiated in the CAC directly with the pastor, or it may be an issue where the neighborhood should seek more consensus and work with community leaders to exert some pressure for changes in behavior, but at this point the Police can continue to monitor but do not have enough to go on to issue a citation.

Officer Kryskowiak will continue to be in direct contact with the pastor and has encouraged him strongly to reduce the late-night activity to respond to neighbors' concerns. Please feel free to contact him directly via email at james.kryskowiak@raleighnc.gov or contact the district station at 919-996-4455.

I am so extremely disappointed by this response that I am not sure where to begin.

First off, I have heard nothing of meeting with neighbors or going door to door. I would like to see a list because I was not included. Why didn't he plan a group session to discuss the issue and include everyone?

Second, "neighborhoods" is of course going to dilute the response to the problem. Besides the parking issue that affects many driving up and down Glascock and State, the noise problem would of course be more localized to those houses beside the church.

Third, "a problem relative to other problems in the area?" Really? Is that how the City of Raleigh and RPD enforces law nowadays? You have laws on the books that you choose to ignore and not enforce unless they are voted highest in demand? I would like to see some comments from the Mayor, City Manager, and City Attorney on the legality and morality of that approach. If the problem was not important to the surrounding houses, why have 12 people voted on it? Why have people left the comments they have below? Why do I have documentation from a police captain, dispatching, and other neighbors that it was and is? To claim the church has been responsive is utterly false. Why would we be shouting out here, still pleading to be heard and for someone to help us with this problem if they had been responsive to our complaints. "Differing opinions" do not matter; you only need two unrelated parties (and you have 12) or one and an officer (if he will ever step up to the plate and really offer his opinion without fear of doing so before higher consent first) to be "prima fascie evidence that such sound is a loud and annoying, frightening, loud and disturbing, unreasonably loud or unnecessary noise" (12-5009).

Fourth, why are we still talking about sound measurements when we have identified the problems with measuring them at the property lines of surrounding houses? There are trees and obstructions via code, and besides, it is not the definitive criterion for a violation. As I continue to point out, there are multiple other ordinances that put them in violation. I want the Police or City Attorney to explain to the concerned neighbors either why these laws are not being enforced or how we are misinterpreting their language to think that they should be (it reads as plain English).

"Look at 12-5006. "...unreasonably loud, annoying... loud and disturbing..." 12-5007 (a). Honking is prohibited. 13-3017 (a). "...excessive, unnecessary or unusually loud noise which disturbs the repose of the neighborhood...." 12-5009. You have documentation here that more than one unrelated person is complaining, and I can document that multiple neighbors have complained in writing about this over the years."

This issue is systematic in the City and deserves acute attention for the betterment of all its citizens. Every officer seems to refer to sound measurements and ignore all the other applicable ordinances. Noise violation enforcement is one of the best ways to ensure a high quality of life for this city's residents while they are at home.

Fifth, I feel duped. I participated in the said survey, thinking it was for the BETTERMENT of my neighborhood, and it was instead used against it. I have seen no follow-ups on the survey results, nor any organized meeting or joining of those who took it to report back what will be done to address the problems that were reported. Is that information going to be ignored, used solely to refute this noise problem? I know we continue to complain about speeding on Glascock and rarely see any enforcement (handful a year). I've noticed recently that there is actually a posted 25mph sign approaching State due to the blind street. People do not drive 25mph.

Please report who is calling the shots on this issue at this point. Captain Lull? Chief Nolan? Mr. Ray or Mr. McCormick? This is going to require some face-to-face discussions. This matter should remain on here for the public benefit of all those concerned, but I am willing to escalate this offline and meet with officials to find out why certain noise ordinances are ignored or to find out how I am misunderstanding them. I hope there is outreach to all who voted here to organize them, hear their concerns, and offer the same explanations in the process of the escalation.

You may contact Officer Kryskowiak directly via email at james.kryskowiak@raleighnc.gov or contact the district station at 919-996-4455. Captain Lull is also available at the same number if you would like to discuss this further.

The problem here is that it is NOT a clear violation, even if three people complain about it. It is only a clear violation when specific measurements exceed the maximum noise limitations. Everything else is a difficult judgment call where officers attempt to discover whether the concern is generally shared throughout the neighborhood or not. In this case it does not appear the problem is shared by more than a very few. It is a difficult balance the police try to reach between the rights of people to be protected from the actions of their neighbors and the rights of people to have the ability to use their property in an allowable way. The Community Policing officer is working very hard to communicate with everyone involved to reach a reasonable solution.

The neighbors do have a legitimate complaint. That said, things have improved quite a bit since I opened this ticket. I have also chatted with Bishop Spain about this issue and hope to work with him so that we can reach a resolution that works well for everyone.